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Topic: HPF2 Begins (Read 11603 times) Print
Ghost Plane

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We were in the can Hoghappy
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TLD

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I thought they had that fixed.
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john galbraith

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Finally decided to give BOINC a try on HPF2.  D/l'd it to one rig for the test, an AMD Athlon 3200+ with 1 gig PC3200 RAM.
The first task they sent was a FAAH unit and my rig finished it in less than 4-1/2 hrs, and that is faster than the same pc did the average FAAH unit on ud software, by at least 1-1/2 hrs.  Reset preferences to get HPF2 only and the next one was.  So far, I'm kinda disappointed.  This pc usually goes through those on ud in around 3 hrs, but on BOINC it's running slower.  After 2 hrs, 20 min. it's completed only 38.235%.  The increases come in very small increments, maybe 2% at a time, quite unlike ud where it would jump in much bigger chunks.

So where is all this speed I've been hearing about?
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Dark Angel

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Only slightly cranky

From what I've seen and heard the HPF2 units are hugely variable.  It could be you just got a chewy one.  The HIV units were much more chewy than the HPF1 units.
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"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." -Terry Pratchett
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john galbraith

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I dunno.

I've got 2 A64's that crash through HPF2's in little more than 2 hours consistently.  Even a lowly 2.53 P4 takes less than 4 hrs.   All on the ud software.  If this BOINC thing ever finishes, think I'll go back to ud.  The devil you know.....
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Teletraan

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John, I'd run a few more work units and then compare.
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john galbraith

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You're right, of course.  Shouldn't be quick to judge. 
That first HPF2 unit took 6-1/2+ hours to finish and the next was scheduled to take nearly 4.  I suspended that one, closed BOINC and restarted the ud agent.  When the current ud job finishes, I'll switch back and give BOINC another run.
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Stephenish

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Honi soit qui mal y pense

A wee bit of patience goes a long way. If the work is valuable, who cares how long it takes...  Huh?

edit: Oh, I see, apples to oranges, trying to guess which platform is faster?
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Dark Angel

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Only slightly cranky

I've had another unit go strange.  Boinc decided it was missing a file and just stopped.  Restarted system and it's away again.  Doh Not supposed to have to reboot a linux box so often.
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"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." -Terry Pratchett
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john galbraith

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Sorry TT.  I ran another HPF2 unit on BOINC and it took nearly 6 hrs again.  That's about 50% longer than ud takes.  More points from Boinc don't matter to me.  I want to do this work as fast and efficiently as possible and it just looks like Boinc isn't the best way to do it.  Only advantage is the ability to host multiple projects and I don't run more than one anyway.  So it's ud for me. Smiley
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TLD

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Thats odd usually BOINIC is faster. Thinking
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john galbraith

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That's what everyone has said but, on the machine I tested it on, it hasn't proved out.
No big deal.  I'll just keep using what works for me. Smiley
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Scribe

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.........  So it's ud for me. Smiley


But UD has just anounced that the HPF they are running is all old stuff and is just make-work...... Huh?
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Dark Angel

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Only slightly cranky

John means the World Community Grid "UD" client.  ie the windows native client, as opposed to the windows BOINC client.
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john galbraith

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Right.  Sorry I didn't make that clearer, but I figured most of you know how I feel about that other place. lol
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Stephenish

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Honi soit qui mal y pense

Could the work coming through BOINC be different than work being loaded on the windows "UD" client?
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I can think that than which a greater cannot be thought. Now, if that than which a greater cannot be thought existed only in the intellect, it would not be that than which a greater cannot be thought, since it can be thought to exist in reality which is greater. It follows, then, that that than which a greater cannot be thought exists in reality.
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Teletraan

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I think it was before, stephenish. John, I would guess each client is getting different sized work units, not that one is more efficient than the other with the same units. But either choice is fine. Keep crunching  Thumbs Up
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john galbraith

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There's no denying that you can't beat BOINC for points awarded.  It gives twice as many per hour than the ud software.  This assumes, of course, that all the work one does gets validated.  It also supports multiproc setups which I think you have.
If the points had more than bragging value, I'd be more willing to use it.  Of course, so would everyone else! lol   I can't compete with anyone on points, and I've risen as high as I'm ever gonna in the standings at Crunchers.  Being practical, it just makes sense to complete units in the shortest possible time.  Doing so costs me less per unit in electricity.
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PiNkY

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*squeek*

something i do kinda wonder (it's been a while since i've run wcg at all, never tried the boinc client....so i may be completely off on this).....the ud app in the past has been explained as more of a wrapper that would trigger the rosetta app to do the processing.  would i be correct in assuming boinc is a similar wrapper type program, which also triggers the same rosetta app used in the ud version....and if so, then would they not theoretically be close to the same in processing time since they have the same code for the actual processing. Thinking  which would make me think perhaps they do draw from different batches of work, causing slight differences in processing time....perhaps at one point in time, ud apps were getting a batch of slow units and boinc quick units, and vice versa now. Thinking  or i could be completely wrong...just a guess.  which client you use shouldn't matter...just interesting to note the differences
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Stephenish

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Honi soit qui mal y pense

The only item I can think of which could slow processing time on the BOINC client is if you were running multiple projects under BOINC and had selected the "Keep in memory" option which maintains projects in memory even after the projects have switched. I have this option turned on to avoid a processing issue in [email protected] Not sure how Windows handles the "in memory" part, though, could be the retained projects get shunted to pagefile after a time.
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I can think that than which a greater cannot be thought. Now, if that than which a greater cannot be thought existed only in the intellect, it would not be that than which a greater cannot be thought, since it can be thought to exist in reality which is greater. It follows, then, that that than which a greater cannot be thought exists in reality.
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The keepin memory problem with Rosie has been fixed so it is no longer required to stop the failures, however......if you do not have the keep in memory when doing multitask in Boinc you will drop back to the last saved checkpoint and lose work. Keeping in memory stoops this and as you guessed it is shunted into pagefile so does not impact anyway. Cool
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Teletraan

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Pinky,
I think your analysis is right.
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john galbraith

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The processing time differences I saw were upwards of 50%.  Also, I'm not so sure about one or both of the agents being just wrappers.  If they both crunched the work in the same way, they would both have the same hardware requirements.  But they don't.  The ud agent has higher reqs than BOINC, which would lead me to believe that the BOINC agent is crippled in comparison to ud, to allow slower machines to do the work.  Either that or the work units themselves are 'dumbed down' by or for BOINC to work on slow rigs, therefore running slower on ALL machines.  I call this the 'No Child Left Behind' theory, or building for the lowest common denominator. lol
WCG has apparently taken the attitude that old, slow computers were holding back the research and are no longer welcome.  'Course they put it nicer than that, but that's what they meant.  I can't say I disagree.  There are many good arguments for NOT using old computers for any purpose, let alone dc computing.  The only reason I can think of TO use them is that you already own them and want to put them to some use.  That is a purely personal decision. 
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Stephenish

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Honi soit qui mal y pense

So there IS likely a difference in the type of work units being given to WCG "UD" client vs. WCG BOINC client. Meaning apples to oranges comparison?
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I can think that than which a greater cannot be thought. Now, if that than which a greater cannot be thought existed only in the intellect, it would not be that than which a greater cannot be thought, since it can be thought to exist in reality which is greater. It follows, then, that that than which a greater cannot be thought exists in reality.
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PiNkY

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*squeek*

interesting observation, john.  i didn't know there were differences in hardware req's, i wonder why.

actually theoretically - the rosetta code would probably have been provided by the people running the rosetta project, and wcg would likely take that and put it into the client...i doubt wcg would modify the code for the actual processing as that would probably defeat the purpose a bit, so one would assume the part that actually does the processing is the same....else it makes you wonder at the consistency of the final data, if one would receive the same results as the other - would seem silly if the two clients processed differently, to take the final data and look at them the same.  perhaps there's some unlooked at reason behind it all, like one client compiled to utilize optimizations that the other client doesn't.  does seem strange that there are mixed reports as to which is quicker, though...the mixed reports would lead me to think that either it's a difference in workunits themselves with one working on a tougher batch then the other....or, perhaps since i think john is reporting based on findings with hpf2, and most people probably did their testing with hpf1, perhaps both are right as to which client is quicker - ud client for hpf2 and boinc for hpf1, for whatever reason. Thinking
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